Taylor guidelines:
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| Black Walnut sound opening up? http://www-.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=46775 |
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| Author: | dnf777 [ Thu Dec 03, 2015 10:09 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Black Walnut sound opening up? |
Hi All, I've built two OM style guitars using black walnut with sitka tops. As I've been led to expect, they are heavy in the mid-range, and not very strong in the low range. Highs seem a little "tinny", if that's an allowable descriptor! Question is, can I expect BW to warm up or mellow a little with age and playing? Its hard for me to honestly assess change in tone, as it is very subtle if at all, and I play it a lot, so a gradual change would probably sneak by me. Like how you don't notice your own kids growing up until someone else is amazed at how much they've grown. This guitar is 6 months old and is my daily go-to piece. thanks, Dave F |
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| Author: | Colin North [ Fri Dec 04, 2015 4:57 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Black Walnut sound opening up? |
Don't know about the walnut opening up, but the spruce has time yet. |
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| Author: | Hesh [ Fri Dec 04, 2015 7:45 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Black Walnut sound opening up? |
Hey David! They take a while to open up and I notice changes on mine 5 years out and more. What you are describing, not much bass, very strong mids and tinny trebles I experienced with the very first guitar that I ever built with tapered/parabolic braces. Back then I did not have any examples of anyone else's work to use as a starting point so sure enough I over braced the sucker. I put up with it for about 7 years and then even though it opened up some but still lacked bass I decided to do some brace shaving. The goal was to loosen up the top and make the lower X legs less massive AND less tall in this instance. A small finger plane and an arm in the sound hole with not one around so I would not get any jokes.... and in only a few minutes that thing opened up nicely and is now one of my favorite players. Might be something to consider. |
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| Author: | kencierp [ Fri Dec 04, 2015 9:32 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Black Walnut sound opening up? |
To my ear a properly constructed Black Walnut guitar should sound very much like Honduran Mahogany. If the Scott Antes plan was used in my view its over braced for sure. I agree with Hesh's suggestion, I'd also look at string set tension "tinny" to me indicates not enough set tension to excite the board. I have had success bringing guitars to life by thinning the perimeter of the lower bout 1" or so inboard -- actually that is now standard procedure for all my builds. I've been told Wayne Henderson does this too. |
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| Author: | kencierp [ Fri Dec 04, 2015 10:51 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Black Walnut sound opening up? |
Taylor guidelines:
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| Author: | Hesh [ Fri Dec 04, 2015 2:36 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Black Walnut sound opening up? |
kencierp wrote: To my ear a properly constructed Black Walnut guitar should sound very much like Honduran Mahogany. If the Scott Antes plan was used in my view its over braced for sure. I agree with Hesh's suggestion, I'd also look at string set tension "tinny" to me indicates not enough set tension to excite the board. I have had success bringing guitars to life by thinning the perimeter of the lower bout 1" or so inboard -- actually that is now standard procedure for all my builds. I've been told Wayne Henderson does this too. Good suggestion only better if done before the guitar is closed up. Nonetheless this is also what Taylor does rabbiting all around the perimeter of the lower bout to loose stiffness permitting the top more movement. I did this too on all of mine as well. |
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| Author: | Bob Orr [ Fri Dec 04, 2015 2:53 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Black Walnut sound opening up? |
could you give a bit more detail plaes on thinning or rabbeting the lower bout? How much thinner, over what area of the soundboard etc? Cheers, Bob |
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| Author: | Mike Collins [ Fri Dec 04, 2015 3:49 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Black Walnut sound opening up? |
Your top needs to open. If you made the top supple =flexible ,then give the guitar some play-in or settling time. B & Sides only flavor the tone & volume. BUT they need to be thinned & Braced for the size guitar your making . Mike |
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| Author: | kencierp [ Fri Dec 04, 2015 5:44 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Black Walnut sound opening up? |
Quote: could you give a bit more detail plaes on thinning or rabbeting the lower bout? How much thinner, over what area of the soundboard etc? Cheers, Bob As a repair this is something I learned from Don Teeter -- it requires you to refinish the sound-board. I use a Dremel in a router base the bit is set to the depth that needs to be removed (of course for me its a guess) so set it at say .015" -- make a series of dots coming inboard about an inch. This is now your target. I use an orbital sander to feather the perimeter until the dots are gone. You can do this with the strings on and listen for the results -- if the top is really thick perhaps more can be removed. |
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| Author: | Clay S. [ Sat Dec 05, 2015 8:36 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Black Walnut sound opening up? |
"could you give a bit more detail plaes on thinning or rabbeting the lower bout? How much thinner, over what area of the soundboard etc?" I don't dado the lower bout as Taylor does. I think that creates a stress riser and might lead to future cracks in the sound board. I do often thin the perimeter of the lower bout before finishing. My method is to "sing in to the soundhole" using as wide a frequency range as I can, from growley death metal tones to Bee Gee falsetto ( I do this in the privacy of my own shop). I place my finger tips lightly on the soundboard and feel where and how strongly the top is responding to those pitches. Using an orbital sander I will lightly sand areas to improve the response of the top until I am happy with it. Some have suggested that sanding the "sides" of the lower bout improves the high and mid frequencies and that sanding the "bottom" of the lower bout improves the low end. I have found this to be somewhat true. I try to go for a fairly even response over the lower bout. It is important to not get carried away and sand your top too thin, and make the top responsive but harsh sounding. As Torres implied training one's fingertips is not something that can be easily taught, but is something you must do for yourself. |
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| Author: | dnf777 [ Sat Dec 05, 2015 9:20 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Black Walnut sound opening up? |
Thanks all. I was just curious as to what I may expect. I don't really plan on making any changes. Hesh, my day job is a colorectal surgeon, so working in a sound hole is a piece of cake! The suggestions of tapering the thickness caught my interest, as that is what is very religiously done with violin tops, but I just assumed that the thinness and span of a guitar top would make such a practice likely to result in cracking. Live and learn. After a summer hiatus, and reading the Gore texts and other good luthier pubs, I planned on getting back into the shop, but our graywater line backed up into the floor drain, so had a little delay until we got things snaked out and hydroblasted. Just gray water, so not too bad! cheers, all! |
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| Author: | Felly Smith [ Wed Dec 09, 2015 11:58 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Black Walnut sound opening up? |
any noticeable difference between eastern black walnut and claro when it comes to the tonal response range or build techniques? I deal with a lot of claro but not so much eastern. |
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| Author: | mike-p [ Wed Dec 09, 2015 12:12 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Black Walnut sound opening up? |
Try heavier guage strings or a higher action for more tone and volume? |
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